Performance Comparison of Java/.NET Runtimes (Oct 2004)
last-updated: November 20 21:55, 2005 JST
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Performance comparison pages:
- Oct 2004:
SPEC JVM98, SciMark 2.0, Linpack benchmark and Eratosthenes Sieve
on Pentium 4 and Opteron.
- Jan 2002:
SPEC JVM98, SciMark 2.0, Linpack benchmark and Eratosthenes Sieve
on Pentium 4.
- Feb 2001:
SPEC JVM98, SciMark 2.0, Linpack benchmark and Eratosthenes Sieve
on Pentium III, K6-2 and Crusoe.
- Sep 2000:
SPEC JVM98, SciMark 2.0, Linpack benchmark and Eratosthenes Sieve
on K6-2.
- Mar 1999:
Eratosthenes Sieve, Linpack benchmark and CaffeineMark 3.0
on Pentium.
News
- November 20, 2005
- Linpack.cs and Linpack.java were updated and show correct scores with a large matrix size about 1,300.
Thanks Dr. Tobias Kind.
- December 17, 2004
- Scores of Mono 1.1.3 were added.
- December 12, 2004
- Linpack.cs and Linpack.java were added.
- October 29, 2004
- JRockit was measured and the scores were added.
- October 27, 2004
- Results of Linpack benchmark in C added.
- Numbers of Visual C++ / SciMark 2 updated.
- October 25, 2004
- Results of SciMark 2 in C# and C added.
- October 19, 2004
- Mono was measured and the scores were added.
- October 14, 2004
- This page was initially provided.
This page shows results of performance comparisons
among Java runtime systems on Linux and .NET runtime system on Windows.
Applied benchmarks
Evaluated Java runtime systems
- Sun JDK 1.5.0
- HotSpot Client VM
- HotSpot Server VM
- Interpreter
- IBM JDK
1.4.2 GA (build cxia321420-20040626)
- IBM JDK
1.3.1 SR7P (build cxia32131ifx-20040727)
- BEA WebLogic JRockit 8.1 (1.4.2_04 JVM)
(build ari-31788-20040616-1032-linux-ia32)
- This runtime accepts -server and -client options.
The default setting of java command (for all benchmarks except SPEC JVM98) is -server
and appletviewer (for SPEC JVM98) uses -client.
- Blackdown J2SDK 1.3.1_02b FCS
- Jikes RVM 2.3.3
(released at July 28, 2004)
- Configured with the command `jconfigure production'.
- Kaffe 1.1.4
- "Just-in-time v3" included.
- GCJ 3.4.2 and 3.3.3
- GCJ is the GNU Compiler for the Java Programming Language.
- 3.4.2 for Pentium 4 and 3.3.3 for Opteron.
Evaluated .NET runtime systems
- Microsoft .NET Framework 1.1
(English,
Japanese)
- Version 1.1.4322 SP1.
- For C# version of Linpack benchmark and Eratosthenes Sieve.
- Only this runtime ran on Windows XP and others were on Linux.
- Mono 1.0.2 and 1.1.3
- 1.0.2 is a stable version and 1.1.3 is a development version.
Evaluated C compilers
- gcc: C front end of GCC 3.4.2
- icc: Intel(R) C++ compiler 8.1
(product page)
- Build 20040921Z Package ID: l_cc_pc_8.1.022
- Microsoft Visual C++ .NET (Visual Studio.NET 2003)
- Microsoft(R) 32-bit C/C++ Optimizing Compiler Version 13.10.3077 for 80x86
Computers
- Pentium 4 PC
- Intel 3.2 GHz Pentium 4 (Northwood)
- Single processor
- Hyper-Threading disabled
- Intel 875P chipset
- Linux 2.6.8
- Windows XP SP2 only for .NET Framework and Visual C++
- Opteron PC
- AMD 2.2 GHz Opteron (model 248)
- AMD 8131/8111 chipset
- Linux 2.6.8
All results are also available in Microsoft Excel (2003) book format:
`JIT-eval-20041217.xls'.
SPEC JVM98
(http://www.spec.org/osg/jvm98/)
is a benchmark suite consists of real Java application programs:
- Modified Lampel-Ziv method (_201_compress),
- Java Expert Shell System based on NASA's CLIPS expert shell system (_202_jess),
- Database functions performed on memory resident database (_209_db),
- Java compiler from the JDK 1.0.2 (_213_javac),
- MPEG Audio Layer-3 decoder (_222_mpegaudio),
- Ray-tracer where two threads work (_227_mtrt),
- and Java parser generator which is now called JavaCC (_228_jack).
SPEC JVM98 shows scores for each benchmark program and
the geometric mean of them. Higher number is better.
Execution time of each benchmark program is rather short
on a today's computer.
For example, with IBM JDK 1.4.2, _202_jess, _222_mpegaudio and _228_jack
finish only in 2 seconds and
_227_mtrt takes only 0.83 second.
SPEC JVM98 seems not to be able to evaluate advanced optimizing techniques
for server-side applications like profile-guided optimizations.
Fairness of results
The results of Jikes RVM, Kaffe and GCJ are not reportable to SPEC
because these runtime systems read benchmark programs and data
from a local filesystem.
Reportable results have to be produced by the benchmark
which run as a Java applet.
Jikes RVM and GCJ cannot run a Java applet and
Kaffe does not work correctly with the applet version of SPEC JVM98.
_201_compress and _213_jack benchmarks are very sensitive to where
those programs and data for them are read from.
Thus the results of these two benchmarks cannot be compared fairly
among all runtime systems.
Conditions
Benchmark programs and a web server (Apache httpd) ran
on the same single computer
and those programs and data were loaded from the web server
(except Jikes RVM, Kaffe and GCJ).
Initial and maximum heap sizes remain as those default values.
Note that one exception is JDK 1.5.0 for x86 on Opteron, whose default values
are not enough to run SPEC JVM98 and initial and maximum heap sizes
are set as 128 MB.
TYA 1.8 cannot run _200_check, _228_jack and _213_javac and then
we use TYA 1.7v3.
Results
Pentium 4
| Runtime system | _227_ mtrt | _202_ jess | _201_ compress | _209_ db | _222_ mpegaudio | _228_ jack | _213_ javac | Geometric Mean |
|---|
| IBM JDK 1.4.2 |
557 | 256 | 324 | 74.1 | 650 | 247 | 165 | 265 |
| IBM JDK 1.3.1 |
509 | 218 | 332 | 73.2 | 527 | 235 | 140 | 241 |
| Sun JDK 1.5.0 Server VM |
496 | 331 | 300 | 46.3 | 533 | 222 | 91.9 | 220 |
| Sun JDK 1.4.2 Server VM |
504 | 332 | 294 | 45.5 | 513 | 199 | 98.8 | 217 |
| JRockit (-server) |
265 | 289 | 282 | 73.7 | 485 | 204 | 123 | 212 |
| JRockit (-client) |
193 | 215 | 260 | 70.2 | 476 | 203 | 123 | 190 |
| Sun JDK 1.5.0 Client VM |
325 | 221 | 204 | 43.4 | 251 | 192 | 96.1 | 162 |
| Sun JDK 1.4.2 Client VM |
318 | 186 | 199 | 43.6 | 249 | 181 | 90.9 | 155 |
| GCJ (-O2) |
122 | 87.0 | 187 | 29.0 | 375 | N/A | 56.1 | 103 |
| Jikes RVM |
109 | 124 | 182 | 38.0 | 195 | 94.2 | 52.7 | 98.6 |
| GCJ (-O0) |
108 | 81.9 | 120 | 28.7 | 108 | N/A | 54.1 | 75.0 |
| OpenJIT |
82.1 | 60.7 | 177 | 16.1 | 123 | 52.7 | 42.5 | 62.9 |
| shuJIT |
45.8 | 53.2 | 117 | 17.2 | 114 | 51.0 | 37.2 | 52.2 |
| Kaffe |
32.0 | 21.3 | 191 | 24.8 | 101 | 32.9 | 21.3 | 41.9 |
| TYA |
33.9 | 46.1 | 83.4 | 15.1 | 67.7 | 43.5 | 34.4 | 41.1 |
| sunwjit |
15.5 | 23.8 | 145 | 16.3 | 86.6 | 43.8 | 33.7 | 37.8 |
| interpreter |
19.6 | 21.2 | 13.0 | 12.4 | 14.7 | 28.4 | 17.2 | 17.4 |
Opteron (AMD64 binary)
| Runtime system | _227_ mtrt | _202_ jess | _201_ compress | _209_ db | _222_ mpegaudio | _228_ jack | _213_ javac | Geometric Mean |
|---|
| Sun JDK 1.5.0 Server VM |
650 | 270 | 354 | 46.6 | 538 | 351 | 114 | 251 |
| GCJ (-O2) |
207 | 108 | 260 | 35.4 | 429 | N/A | 77.1 | 138 |
| GCJ (-O0) |
133 | 88.8 | 99.8 | 34.1 | 75.7 | N/A | 70.1 | 77.3 |
| interpreter |
27.0 | 18.3 | 10.7 | 10.2 | 12.4 | 30.2 | 16.4 | 16.5 |
Opteron (x86 binary)
| Runtime system | _227_ mtrt | _202_ jess | _201_ compress | _209_ db | _222_ mpegaudio | _228_ jack | _213_ javac | Geometric Mean |
|---|
| JRockit (-server) |
450 | 286 | 307 | 62.5 | 441 | 316 | 161 | 247 |
| Sun JDK 1.5.0 Server VM |
611 | 308 | 265 | 50.0 | 481 | 344 | 106 | 238 |
| JRockit (-client) |
236 | 256 | 264 | 64.2 | 453 | 298 | 161 | 217 |
| Sun JDK 1.5.0 Client VM |
467 | 236 | 228 | 46.2 | 262 | 294 | 97.4 | 189 |
| GCJ (-O2) |
133 | 99.6 | 187 | 35.1 | 311 | N/A | 76.1 | 113 |
| GCJ (-O0) |
108 | 86.3 | 107 | 33.9 | 75.9 | N/A | 69.9 | 75.0 |
| interpreter |
26.6 | 18.4 | 11.1 | 11.0 | 12.1 | 31.5 | 16.7 | 16.8 |
SciMark 2.0
(http://math.nist.gov/scimark2/)
is a benchmark suite consists of numerical kernels.
C version is also available at the NIST site.
C# version is available at a web page at Cornell University
(http://rotor.cs.cornell.edu/SciMark/).
SciMark 2.0 shows results in MFlops (mega floating-point operations per second)
and the composite score, which is the arithmetic mean of them.
Higher number is better.
Therefore, SOR showing relatively higher value
affects the composite score much.
Oppositely, FFT and Monte Carlo are not counted very much.
Fairness of results
C version is advantageous compared with Java and C# versions
because Java and C# versions use a "synchronized" version of the random number
generator, which makes the Monte Carlo Test much slower.
Conditions
We specified the `-large' option to run the benchmarks with the large data set.
We tried "-O2", "-O3" and "-O3 -funroll-loops" options with gcc and
"-O2" yielded the best numbers.
Similarly, "-O2", "-O3" and "-O3 -xN" tried with icc and
"-O2" was the best.
Pentium 4
| Runtime system | FFT (1048576) | SOR (1000x1000) | Monte Carlo | Sparse matmult (N=100000, nz=1000000) | LU (1000x1000) | Composite Score |
|---|
| C/Visual C++ |
27.7 | 761 | 90.9 | 384 | 384 | 329 |
| Java/Sun JDK 1.4.2 Server VM |
38.1 | 742 | 115 | 356 | 366 | 324 |
| Java/Sun JDK 1.5.0 Server VM |
34.4 | 741 | 94.3 | 347 | 366 | 316 |
| C/icc (-O2) |
30.9 | 641 | 85.5 | 391 | 380 | 306 |
| C/gcc (-O2) |
31.4 | 451 | 84.2 | 385 | 378 | 266 |
| Java/IBM JDK 1.4.2 |
32.9 | 451 | 84.0 | 315 | 370 | 250 |
| Java/JRockit (-server) |
35.2 | 430 | 112 | 307 | 358 | 249 |
| Java/IBM JDK 1.3.1 |
34.7 | 449 | 62.1 | 320 | 367 | 247 |
| Java/JRockit (-client) |
37.0 | 430 | 113 | 290 | 359 | 246 |
| C#/.NET (Release) |
25.9 | 454 | 46.9 | 323 | 348 | 240 |
| Java/GCJ (-O2 with .java) |
31.9 | 409 | 14.6 | 281 | 353 | 218 |
| Java/GCJ (-O2 with .class) |
31.9 | 409 | 14.4 | 238 | 338 | 206 |
| Java/Sun JDK 1.5.0 Client VM |
34.3 | 413 | 54.1 | 164 | 327 | 199 |
| Java/Jikes RVM |
24.2 | 412 | 7.12 | 261 | 279 | 197 |
| Java/Sun JDK 1.4.2 Client VM |
34.5 | 414 | 38.5 | 165 | 325 | 195 |
| C#/Mono 1.0.2 (JIT) |
34.4 | 355 | 2.12 | 178 | 245 | 163 |
| C#/Mono 1.1.3 (JIT) |
31.8 | 375 | 5.24 | 180 | 219 | 162 |
| Java/Kaffe |
29.2 | 226 | 10.6 | 95.3 | 216 | 115 |
| Java/GCJ (-O0 with .java) |
27.7 | 193 | 13.1 | 106 | 153 | 98.6 |
| Java/OpenJIT |
28.6 | 124 | 8.5 | 123 | 55.7 | 68.0 |
| Java/GCJ (-O0 with .class) |
23.1 | 132 | 11.7 | 66.1 | 83.1 | 63.2 |
| Java/sunwjit |
31.8 | 148 | 5.73 | 59.6 | 18.6 | 52.7 |
| Java/shuJIT |
17.1 | 100 | 7.52 | 58.6 | 65.4 | 49.7 |
| Java/TYA |
14.2 | 64.2 | 5.93 | 50.3 | 71.5 | 41.2 |
| Java/interpreter |
6.63 | 26.9 | 4.88 | 19.8 | 41.9 | 20.0 |
| C#/Mono 1.1.3 (interpreter) |
4.11 | 18.4 | 0.83 | 9.98 | 7.46 | 8.16 |
| C#/Mono 1.0.2 (interpreter) |
4.22 | 16.4 | 0.83 | 8.24 | 8.12 | 7.56 |
Opteron (AMD64 binary)
| Runtime system | FFT (1048576) | SOR (1000x1000) | Monte Carlo | Sparse matmult (N=100000, nz=1000000) | LU (1000x1000) | Composite Score |
|---|
| Sun JDK 1.5.0 Server VM |
36.9 | 669 | 73.3 | 249 | 299 | 265 |
| GCJ (-O2 with .class) |
38.2 | 481 | 37.0 | 235 | 288 | 216 |
| GCJ (-O2 with .java) |
38.1 | 481 | 32.4 | 229 | 285 | 213 |
| GCJ (-O0 with .java) |
24.4 | 146 | 21.6 | 80.2 | 109 | 76.3 |
| GCJ (-O0 with .class) |
21.1 | 120 | 17.0 | 70.5 | 62.5 | 58.2 |
| interpreter |
5.84 | 24.5 | 3.73 | 15.1 | 20.2 | 13.9 |
Opteron (x86 binary)
| Runtime system | FFT (1048576) | SOR (1000x1000) | Monte Carlo | Sparse matmult (N=100000, nz=1000000) | LU (1000x1000) | Composite Score |
|---|
| Sun JDK 1.5.0 Server VM |
37.8 | 659 | 64.4 | 234 | 300 | 259 |
| JRockit (-server) |
41.6 | 463 | 121 | 258 | 301 | 237 |
| JRockit (-client) |
41.5 | 468 | 121 | 254 | 289 | 235 |
| GCJ (-O2 with .class) |
37.7 | 482 | 29.8 | 228 | 293 | 214 |
| GCJ (-O2 with .java) |
38.1 | 476 | 28.9 | 217 | 302 | 212 |
| Sun JDK 1.5.0 Client VM |
33.9 | 479 | 41.2 | 186 | 204 | 189 |
| GCJ (-O0 with .java) |
23.4 | 147 | 20.9 | 80.9 | 99.9 | 74.5 |
| GCJ (-O0 with .class) |
19.9 | 118 | 16.4 | 66.4 | 65.6 | 57.3 |
| interpreter |
5.52 | 21.7 | 3.62 | 13.7 | 19.5 | 12.8 |
See
FAQ on the LINPACK Benchmark.
The results are in MFlops (mega floating-point operations per second),
so higher is better.
We used a modified version of the Java version
(http://www.netlib.org/benchmark/linpackjava/),
the C version
(http://www.netlib.org/benchmark/linpackc)
and ported the Java version to C#:
All these versions of Linpack benchmark are not well optimized
(ex. not blocked)
and do not exploit potential performance of runtimes/platforms much
because the purpose of this benchmarking is not such exploitation
but comparison of runtimes/platforms.
Pentium 4
| 1000 x 1000 | 500 x 500 |
|---|
|
|
| MFlops | second |
| C/icc (-O3 -xN) | 402.519 | 1.66 |
| C/Visual C++ (/Ox /G7 /arch:SSE2) | 399.920 | 1.67 |
| C/gcc (-O3 -funroll-loops) | 393.667 | 1.70 |
| C#/.NET (Release) | 382.099 | 1.75 |
| Java/Sun JDK 1.5.0 Server VM | 379.924 | 1.76 |
| Java/Sun JDK 1.4.2 Server VM | 379.278 | 1.763 |
| Java/IBM JDK 1.4.2 | 374.393 | 1.786 |
| Java/IBM JDK 1.3.1 | 360.856 | 1.853 |
| Java/GCJ (-O2 with .java) | 357.003 | 1.873 |
| Java/GCJ (-O2 with .class) | 348.809 | 1.917 |
| Java/Sun JDK 1.5.0 Client VM | 339.942 | 1.967 |
| Java/Sun JDK 1.4.2 Client VM | 339.08 | 1.972 |
| Java/JRockit (-server) | 318.261 | 2.101 |
| Java/JRockit (-client) | 318.11 | 2.102 |
| C#/Mono 1.1.3 (JIT) | 313.113 | 2.136 |
| Java/Jikes RVM | 309.975 | 2.207 |
| C#/Mono 1.0.2 (JIT) | 230.651 | 2.899 |
| Java/Kaffe | 211.002 | 3.169 |
| C#/.NET (Debug) | 195.409 | 3.422 |
| Java/GCJ (-O0 with .java) | 151.179 | 4.423 |
| Java/OpenJIT | 130.344 | 5.13 |
| Java/GCJ (-O0 with .class) | 92.306 | 7.244 |
| Java/shuJIT | 79.803 | 8.379 |
| Java/TYA | 71.815 | 9.311 |
| Java/interpreter | 26.006 | 25.712 |
| Java/sunwjit | 15.833 | 42.233 |
| C#/Mono 1.1.3 (interpreter) | 9.47 | 70.611 |
| C#/Mono 1.0.2 (interpreter) | 6.591 | 101.452 |
|
| MFlops | second |
| C/Visual C++ (/Ox /G7 /arch:SSE2) | 448.307 | 0.19 |
| C/icc (-O3 -xN) | 433.974 | 0.19 |
| C/gcc (-O3 -funroll-loops) | 413.455 | 0.20 |
| Java/GCJ (-O2 with .java) | 359.8 | 0.233 |
| Java/JRockit (-server) | 349.306 | 0.24 |
| Java/JRockit (-client) | 349.306 | 0.24 |
| Java/GCJ (-O2 with .class) | 349.306 | 0.24 |
| Java/Sun JDK 1.5.0 Server VM | 319.975 | 0.262 |
| Java/IBM JDK 1.4.2 | 317.551 | 0.264 |
| Java/Sun JDK 1.5.0 Client VM | 317.551 | 0.264 |
| Java/IBM JDK 1.3.1 | 312.811 | 0.268 |
| Java/Sun JDK 1.4.2 Client VM | 312.811 | 0.268 |
| C#/Mono 1.1.3 (interpreter) | 301.998 | 0.278 |
| Java/Sun JDK 1.4.2 Server VM | 297.281 | 0.282 |
| C#/.NET (Release) | 282.386 | 0.297 |
| C#/Mono 1.0.2 (JIT) | 222.429 | 0.377 |
| Java/Kaffe | 198.188 | 0.423 |
| Java/Jikes RVM | 192.278 | 0.436 |
| C#/.NET (Debug) | 162.588 | 0.516 |
| Java/GCJ (-O0 with .java) | 151.597 | 0.553 |
| Java/OpenJIT | 129.974 | 0.645 |
| Java/GCJ (-O0 with .class) | 90.926 | 0.922 |
| Java/shuJIT | 76.77 | 1.092 |
| Java/TYA | 70.567 | 1.188 |
| Java/interpreter | 25.653 | 3.268 |
| Java/sunwjit | 15.453 | 5.425 |
| C#/Mono 1.1.3 (interpreter) | 8.676 | 9.663 |
| C#/Mono 1.0.2 (interpreter) | 6.568 | 12.764 |
|
|
Opteron
| 1000 x 1000 | 500 x 500 |
|---|
| AMD binary | x86 binary | AMD binary | x86 binary |
|---|
| MFlops | second | MFlops | second | MFlops | second | MFlops | second |
|---|
| Sun JDK 1.5.0 Server VM |
304.216 | 2.198 | 297.582 | 2.247 | 311.648 | 0.269 | 318.758 | 0.263 |
| JRockit (-server) |
| | 273.371 | 2.446 | | | 266.985 | 0.314 |
| JRockit (-client) |
| | 273.26 | 2.447 | | | 268.697 | 0.312 |
| GCJ (-O2 with .java) |
276.881 | 2.415 | 240.441 | 2.781 | 289.08 | 0.29 | 250.998 | 0.334 |
| GCJ (-O2 with .class) |
275.171 | 2.43 | 220.682 | 3.03 | 287.1 | 0.292 | 225.966 | 0.371 |
| Sun JDK 1.5.0 Client VM |
| | 217.665 | 3.072 | | | 222.961 | 0.376 |
| GCJ (-O0 with .java) |
103.959 | 6.432 | 93.625 | 7.142 | 103.754 | 0.808 | 94.089 | 0.891 |
| GCJ (-O0 with .class) |
64.812 | 10.317 | 64.512 | 10.365 | 65.291 | 1.284 | 64.736 | 1.295 |
| interpreter |
14.365 | 46.548 | 13.954 | 47.918 | 14.209 | 5.9 | 13.784 | 6.082 |
This benchmark is the Sieve.java
in the TYA archive.
These values are number of operations per 10 seconds, so higher is better.
Pentium 4
| IBM JDK 1.4.2 | 13327 |
| IBM JDK 1.3.1 | 13308 |
| JRockit (-server) | 13197 |
| GCJ (-O2 with .java) | 13141 |
| JRockit (-client) | 12991 |
| C#/.NET (Release) | 12735 |
| GCJ (-O2 with .class) | 12057 |
| Sun JDK 1.4.2 Server VM | 11992 |
| Sun JDK 1.5.0 Server VM | 11174 |
| Jikes RVM | 9555 |
| C#/Mono 1.1.3 (JIT) | 9420 |
| Kaffe | 9024 |
| C#/.NET (Debug) | 8217 |
| C#/Mono 1.0.2 (JIT) | 8047 |
| Sun JDK 1.4.2 Client VM | 7546 |
| Sun JDK 1.5.0 Client VM | 7275 |
| OpenJIT | 6587 |
| sunwjit | 6269 |
| GCJ (-O0 with .java) | 5488 |
| shuJIT | 5005 |
| TYA | 4756 |
| GCJ (-O0 with .class) | 4350 |
| interpreter | 515 |
| C#/Mono 1.0.2 (interpreter) | 343 |
| C#/Mono 1.1.3 (interpreter) | 337 |
Opteron
| AMD64 binary | x86 binary |
|---|
|
|
| GCJ (-O2 with .java) | 13522 |
| GCJ (-O2 with .class) | 11934 |
| Sun JDK 1.5.0 Server VM | 10736 |
| GCJ (-O0 with .java) | 3471 |
| GCJ (-O0 with .class) | 2830 |
| interpreter | 537 |
|
| JRockit (-server) | 13460 |
| JRockit (-client) | 13412 |
| Sun JDK 1.5.0 Server VM | 12906 |
| GCJ (-O2 with .java) | 12771 |
| GCJ (-O2 with .class) | 10653 |
| Sun JDK 1.5.0 Client VM | 6631 |
| GCJ (-O0 with .java) | 3934 |
| GCJ (-O0 with .class) | 3478 |
| interpreter | 552 | |
|
Related Resources
- The Java Performance Report
- http://www.javalobby.org/members/jpr/
- Java Grande Forum
- http://www.javagrande.org/
- Java Numerics (at NIST)
- http://math.nist.gov/javanumerics/
- validgh Java numerics page
- http://www.validgh.com/java/
- Java in Science and Engineering list, Java Grande Forum list
- http://mailer.csit.fsu.edu/mailman/listinfo
Copyright (C) 2004 Kazuyuki Shudo
<shudo at computer.org>
